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Post Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:13 pm
Jim User avatar
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Slogan: "They may kill you but they won't eat you"
Spot: Yeah Jim the jewish religion is just as bad and xtian too.

You can assert that one till the cows come home but that doesn't make it so. Unfortunately the argument is fairly complex and would require you familiarizing yourself with all three at a level I don't believe you're willing to invest the time in and for some odd reason your unwilling to accept the evidence of their collective fruits into the discussion; last time I can remember christians blowing anyone up was 17 years ago and there was a single casualty, if the Islamists manage to do that just once today it's considered a quiet day.

Spot "they didnt care what i did or didnt do."

Because there aren't any to speak of in your environment and by your own admission when the few there are get uppity you cats get rid of them which is not necessarily a bad thing but imo that would tend to quell the incendiary rhetoric a mite methinks and skew the results of your anecdotal polling.

Take a good hard look at what's going on in France, a country not exactly renowned for it's willingness to engage in foreign adventuring in the last half a century or so so that excuse would seem to be off the table in that case, and ask yourself what's the difference between France and Oz.

The answers is numbers...

Spot However i am not saying not to hate them. Hate them all you like.

That both saddens me that that's all you managed to get from all this and that you'd think me capable of such. I don't hate anybody (ok, wiggers and fools), I'm simply a pragmatic realist who has invested a gobsmackingly large amount of time studying religion, politics and history and I know a threat when I see one. I resisted this conclusion for longer than it made sense to in direct contradiction to the evidence of my eyes because I didn't like the sound of it but truth is truth and the dictates of Reason require that I follow truth wherever it may go.

Spot " The guy <Howard> is an arsehole.

heh, I've got to have a bit of fun with you I'm afraid. You know who I hear reject information based on it's source without consideration most often? Tea Partiers. Rush Limbaugh. Sarah Palin. Dogmatic fanatics. David Pantele.

I'd think long and hard about that...

Post Wed Jul 11, 2012 10:38 pm
Brendiggg User avatar
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Slogan: An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind (unless you are a fly)

In Spot's defense, Howard really is an arsehole. He was a career politician whose opinion was only ever swayed by opinion polls. Maybe what he said had a modicum of truth but, you know, stopped clock, etc.

Post Thu Jul 12, 2012 4:43 am
Spot of Borg User avatar
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Jim wrote:
You can assert that one till the cows come home but that doesn't make it so. Unfortunately the argument is fairly complex and would require you familiarizing yourself with all three at a level I don't believe you're willing to invest the time in and for some odd reason your unwilling to accept the evidence of their collective fruits into the discussion; last time I can remember christians blowing anyone up was 17 years ago and there was a single casualty, if the Islamists manage to do that just once today it's considered a quiet day.


I notice you avoided mentioning the jews.

When is the last time anyone blew themselves up in america or australia? They are radical in their own countries because its acceptable there. If a radical arises here they are sent away or imprisoned. Same as any other criminal. Like I said somewhere else though we need to stop this segregation of immigrants though.

Jim wrote:
Because there aren't any to speak of in your environment and by your own admission when the few there are get uppity you cats get rid of them which is not necessarily a bad thing but imo that would tend to quell the incendiary rhetoric a mite methinks and skew the results of your anecdotal polling.


As i said before and as you already know from knowing me for years I LIVED IN MUSLIM COUNTRIES. I have said this several times already in this thread. Of course there are radical muslims and they are bastards. Thing is not all muslims want "sharia law". Its not even "mainstream".

Muslims all over the world feel threatened ATM and for good reason. They are being targeted by all the media and fear campaigns everywhere and a lot of countries are occupied ATM. The west is poking a hornets nest.

Jim wrote:
That both saddens me that that's all you managed to get from all this and that you'd think me capable of such. I don't hate anybody (ok, wiggers and fools), I'm simply a pragmatic realist who has invested a gobsmackingly large amount of time studying religion, politics and history and I know a threat when I see one.


I dont really think that but you keep insinuating that I am stupid so im striking back. Sorry not that good @ turning the other cheek.

Jim wrote:
I resisted this conclusion for longer than it made sense to in direct contradiction to the evidence of my eyes because I didn't like the sound of it but truth is truth and the dictates of Reason require that I follow truth wherever it may go
.

Your eyes arent showing you muslim violence in your own country though. Surprisingly IMO because if i was muslim radical i would be targeting your country.

Jim wrote:
heh, I've got to have a bit of fun with you I'm afraid. You know who I hear reject information based on it's source without consideration most often? Tea Partiers. Rush Limbaugh. Sarah Palin. Dogmatic fanatics. David Pantele.


Heh i know. I didnt say I wouldn't consider the source though. Heck I have read howards biography (BS it was). Howard was racist and put in several race specific policies in his tenure. Hence my skepticism.

Where is Dave BTW? He joined here then disappeared and I havent seen him in MX either. Someone else did that and turned out they had a stroke. I hope nothing like that has befallen him?

In conclusion my point in all this is just that if they are left alone they are pretty harmless - (well as harmless as a religious nut can be) @ least in australia and some other countries. If they are provoked well same as provoking any group - they get angry and develop more radical cults. The more secular we become the less the radicals will even want to come here. Hopefully the other religions will start to disappear too. heh. Wishful thinking there I guess.

I have read both the bible and the koran. you have way more knowledge about the bible than me though because like I said you know which bits are figurative etc. All I see is violence. In both books. The OT especially (which is the jewish religion isnt it?)

Look jim i dont like any of them They are ALL a threat.

Spot
Image . . "Cry MEOW! And eat the butterflies of war!"

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 10:42 am
DCRocks User avatar
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Spot of Borg wrote:
When is the last time anyone blew themselves up in america or australia?


Sept 11th, 2001

How you forget so quickly.
“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”

You have Enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something in your life.

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 11:19 am
Spot of Borg User avatar
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That was the last time? Also the first time. Hardly indicative of ALL muslims.

Spot
Image . . "Cry MEOW! And eat the butterflies of war!"

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:38 pm
Jim User avatar
Duke
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Posts: 234
Location: Land of Cotton, USA
Slogan: "They may kill you but they won't eat you"
Spot I've been little busy with a bagload of personal stuff and then I sat down at my main computer and it's gone flakey enough for me to have to use safe mode to write this so I'm gonna be hit and run for another day or two, didnt want you think I'd forgotten.

I do want to address one thing quickly though as it seems to be a recurring theme.

Spot: "I notice you avoided mentioning the jews."

Because they're not a direct threat that I can see but not for reasons of philosophy even though I think a very good argument could be made.

Let's assume middle eastern jews have the same ratio of psychopaths of people that want to kill and/or subjugate in the name of their celestial sky daddy. Hell, let's make it interesting, let's say the jews have three times the ratio of their semitic neighbors which is patently ridiculous but let's play with that anyway. You'd be 17 times as likely to see some form of bad thing happening in the name of <insert spooky invisible guy's name> and that's just considering the middle east followers. Using world numbers the chances balloon to 40 times at today's population.

And remember, this assumes damn dirty jews are 3 times as likely to be mean and nasty than the damn dirty muslims. Assuming a 1 to 1 ration which in my humble opinion is still way high a more realistic figure would be 120 times and if I were making the assertion it would be 200 or better.

And there's more. World jewish population is stable and not growing. Muslims however are operating under no such constraints and 17 years from now if these trends continue and again using our 1 to 1 ratio our chances now stand at 150 times and again, were I making the assertion, it would be 250 times minimum.

So, if the jews did just as much nasty shit per capita, which they don't, and if their dogma was equally as vile in it's imperatives, which it isn't, and it forced societal retardation on those under it's sway with the same ferocity, which it doesn't, and their skydaddy exhorted them to mercilessly expand their sphere by any means necessary, which it doesn't and their ideas for heaven on earth was a framed snapshot of 12th century existence, which it isn't, their ability to to inflict all this on the rest of us is statistically insignificant in comparison even using ridiculous assumptions; you'd have a better chance of being struck down by death rays from mars.

Post Fri Jul 13, 2012 2:54 pm
Jim User avatar
Duke
Duke

Posts: 234
Location: Land of Cotton, USA
Slogan: "They may kill you but they won't eat you"
Spot: "That was the last time? Also the first time."

ummm, nope. First time on that building complex was in 1993. They just failed. But they tried real hard. Prior to that their favorite soft targets were airplanes and ships, tourists on vacation, shoved an old man in a wheelchair overboard in the mid 80's that was fairly famous because it was so feral, got a barracks full of marines in the early 80's, ofc the Lockerbie incident was plastered all over the papers, been pretty continuous since I was in high school long long ago @ oh I'd guess 4 or 5 events a year for the majority of my life. Since 9/11 the folks that track such claim 51 attempts/attacks in various stages of completion so still hitting about 4 or 5 a year although we are catching them prior to execution at a better clip now. Towers not even close to the only incident, it's just their crown jewel.

Post Sat Jul 14, 2012 7:13 am
Spot of Borg User avatar
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Jim wrote:
Bah, that's silly. First, certainly I have, done business with tons of them. Sat down and had some deep discussions with 2 of them on this very subject. Get yourself one who's in the faith and ask the right questions and the answers will make you go 0.o


Yeah for extremists especially. I have found this for several religions though. In fact almost all of them think they are the only true religion and all others are somehow evil violence is in all of the holy books too.

Jim wrote:
This experience does not for a second validate totalitarian communist rule nor does this mean that because I have had similar experiences in Alabaster Alabama where there isn't a commie in sight that Alabaster and E Berlin are similarly yoked because of some cursory surface similarities and the fact that I enjoyed myself in both places.


Saigon also is flourishing under communism. Yeah i know off-topic.

Jim wrote:
I also get the impression that you're saying all bads are equal and because 700 years ago you perceive a religious entity was similarly bad to the current badness this somehow justifies the badness which I seriously don't get. Bad is still bad and repeating a known bad on a much larger scale is a much larger mistake than it was the first time.


No im saying all the bads are equal in our culture but not theirs. They are not "civilised" (well not our interpretation). They havent got the means either to enforce laws like ours even if they wanted to. According to us they are primitive. When they live in our culture they are just another religion though. the psychopaths that cant control themselves and use religion as an excuse get prosecuted just like the ones of other faiths.

The only solutions I have are: 1) invade them and take over and impose our way of life on them or 2) withdraw and leave them alone. What we are doing @ the moment is provoking them. Prodding the hornets nest with a stick.

Jim wrote:
And this is more hindrance than help because you equate all of them as equal due to their collective top tier belief in the supernatural.


No I say the extremist xtians are worse in our countries due to their extremism. The muslims actually keep to themselves. The extremist muslims are kicked out of here quick smart because of our over-vigilance.

Jim wrote:
last time I can remember christians blowing anyone up was 17 years ago and there was a single casualty, if the Islamists manage to do that just once today it's considered a quiet day.


In america violence by any extremists is rare though i bet its more often xtians than muslims. In australia we have never had muslim violence. Yeah some ppl may pull me up here and whine about the cronnulla "riots" but that was a setup rigged to spur racial dispute by those shockjock dicks.

Sorry just scrolled and saw ive been replying to wrong posts so sorry if i have said same things again

Jim wrote:
Because they're not a direct threat that I can see but not for reasons of philosophy even though I think a very good argument could be made.


The reason i mention them is because they are well behaved in our countries (except for the occasional psychopath maybe) but in their own countries they are like the muslims. They live by OT rules and they bully the palestinians because god is on their side.

Jim wrote:
And there's more. World jewish population is stable and not growing.


Uhhh what? Is that a typo? They dont breed in israel?

Jim wrote:
ummm, nope. First time on that building complex was in 1993. They just failed.


Whats the ratio xtian to muslim violence in america?

As for the "foiled" attacks I am a bit sceptical of those. Some may be real but its interesting that they "foil" some terrorist attack whenever its a politically good time to do so. @ least in UK and Oz. Don't really know about america.

SOB
Image . . "Cry MEOW! And eat the butterflies of war!"

Post Sun Jul 15, 2012 3:43 am
DCRocks User avatar
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Slogan: All that is necessary for evil to succeed is for good men to do nothing
Spot of Borg wrote:
That was the last time?

Correct, the US Government has been extremely vigilant to foil the massive number of attempts that have been attempted since then

Heck, they just convicted a guy that was trying to use radio controlled planes the bomb the Pentagon.

Lack of successful attacks does not mean lack of attempts. We have just been lucky.

Spot of Borg wrote:
Also the first time.


Hardly, as pointed out earlier, it wasn't even the first time the WTCs were attacked.

The previous time the Islamic extremists only killed a handful though.

Spot of Borg wrote:
Hardly indicative of ALL muslims.

Spot


Agreed, but it IS indicative of Islamic extremists, something you STILL refuse to admit, despite the massive number of attacks carried out on almost a daily basis.

If you would like to open your eyes to a bit of truth, here is a list of the daily attacks by "the religion of peace"

Here is a list for just 2012

Brendiggg wrote:
In Spot's defense, Howard really is an arsehole.


Yah, despite being rather skeptical, Spot showed me enough evidence I ended up agreeing with that point.

Spot of Borg wrote:
Whats the ratio xtian to muslim violence in america?


I dont remember any, to be honest, mostly it is "white supremacists" that have launched terror attacks, and normally under the "white power/anti-govt" banner, not xtian.
“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”

You have Enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something in your life.

Post Sun Jul 15, 2012 8:58 am
Spot of Borg User avatar
The Borg
The Borg

Posts: 1440
Location: Delta Quadrant
Slogan: You may be Assimilated

Agreed, but it IS indicative of Islamic extremists, something you STILL refuse to admit, despite the massive number of attacks carried out on almost a daily basis.


Im not sure what you are saying here. I havent ever said that muslim extremists arent scary bastards. However you guys want to paint all of them as extremist. Also nobody wants to admit there are extremist scary bastards in other religions too.

I dont remember any, to be honest, mostly it is "white supremacists" that have launched terror attacks, and normally under the "white power/anti-govt" banner, not xtian.


Yeah. Figgers.

Again I say organised religion should be banned in public places and politics. It should be illegal to accost ppl in the street with your religion (sorry scientologists and krishnas this means you too) and they should not be allowed to lobby and they shouldn't be allowed to have anything to do with schools.

Spot
Image . . "Cry MEOW! And eat the butterflies of war!"

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