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Post Wed Jul 18, 2012 10:53 am
Nodin User avatar
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DCRocks wrote:
Nodin wrote:
but Islam in total is not the existential threat that its supposed to be.


Think you need to do a quick review of daily attacks committed in the name of Islam...

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/index.html#Attacks

Enough bodies there for you Nodin?


About as convincing as digging up "Jew watch" and saying "there ye go".

And of course they've included an entirely honest body count caused by other groups for comparison, because it wouldn't do to examine them in isolation. And they've made sure that in each and every case that religion as opposed to other ethnic/national disputes are at the root of whatever conflict. And we're supposed to forget that these acts are carried out (certainly the most recent ones listed) by a minority of extremists in no way representative of the ordinary people, that many of the victims are also muslims....

Never present that shite to me in a discussion DC. Its a hate site with zero credibility.

Post Thu Jul 19, 2012 2:43 am
Jim User avatar
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Nodin wrote:

About as convincing as digging up "Jew watch" and saying "there ye go".

And of course they've included an entirely honest body count caused by other groups for comparison, because it wouldn't do to examine them in isolation. And they've made sure that in each and every case that religion as opposed to other ethnic/national disputes are at the root of whatever conflict. And we're supposed to forget that these acts are carried out (certainly the most recent ones listed) by a minority of extremists in no way representative of the ordinary people, that many of the victims are also muslims....


OK, before I rant, let me go on record by saying when I saw the link my first instinct was to cringe and mutter "Doood, not that THAT one, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO" *Jim fades from view due to jumping off a cliff*.

But your response illustrates what I feel is the crux of the matter: It doesn't matter why, it simply is.

If you, a citizen of the emerald isle, took it upon yourself to visit certain areas of Detroit your chances of some really bad event happening would rise astronomically. Detroit is a violent place and American's can be some violent folks. If you didn't have this first and foremost in your mind as you visited, you'd be a fool and the math would suggest that you quell your urge to visit there and choose somewhere else located in the rest of the from sea to shining sea or to perhaps consider whether visiting in the first place was such a bright idea. Why Detroit is a violent place is an interesting mental exercise and being convinced that you as a man are just chock full of empathy I would expect you to engage in this inquiry and fairly soon you'd see that it's an economically depressed area in which despair abounds which are certainly heart rending circumstances but this does not change for a nanosecond that your chances of death or serious harm rise exponentially when you go there or the fact that, despite the fact that I think you're a right fine fellow with wit and intellect, that I would think you to be a total moron to go there even traveling in a tank.

Now if I took citizens at random from Detroit and exported them elsewhere several things are possible, they could change and integrate, they could feel estranged from the motherland and gather together, several possibilities come to mind. The only thing you could be certain of is that where ever they were sent, the chances of death and serious harm to the rest of the populace would uptick just a little and as their numbers grew so would the chances particularly if they were allowed to sullenly look at their new neighbors as somehow less important and less special than they themselves were and operated under an imperative to change the landscape to their worldview by any means necessary.

This is not about circumstances, reasons, rationale's, blame, religion, brown people, inducements, politics or provocations, it's simply about the math. Yes I'm of the mind that the dogma is the root cause but if my mind is wrong the math remains.

Post Thu Jul 19, 2012 6:24 am
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However the asylum seekers in australia are actually choosing to come here to live in this country. Not being forced to come here. They are forced to leave where they were but they chose australia knowing they have to live by australias laws. Not only that but they are mostly families who are displaced because they do not engage in the violence wherever they came from. In fact - not all of them are muslims but a good whack of them are and ppl have a perception that they are and thats all that matters isnt it.

There have been occasional outbursts of religious crap. IMO it was made up though like the trayvon martin thing was blamed on racism when the guy obviously profiled him but i doubt colour had anything to do with it. Hannibal and his bilal skilaf gang. Gawd. Those were young boys. Hoodlums. I doubt they did what they did because of their religion - they were arsehole gang members who happened to be muslim. So they blamed their god. Doesnt mean all muslims are like that and some ppl cant let go of that 1 incident. There have been other serial rapists and killers in austrralia and the media hasnt even mentioned their religion. What religion is ivan milat? Well i happen to know he is the catholic variety of xtian but the media didnt tell me this.

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Post Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:42 pm
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Post Fri Jul 20, 2012 2:51 am
Nodin User avatar
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Jim wrote:

This is not about circumstances, reasons, rationale's, blame, religion, brown people, inducements, politics or provocations, it's simply about the math. Yes I'm of the mind that the dogma is the root cause but if my mind is wrong the math remains.



...but again, the maths doesn't add up when you look at the large muslim population of Europe and the level of violence therein. Theres a minimum of 4 million French muslims, which is more than sufficient in size to perpetrate a god-awful campaign, yet violence is minimal. 5% (roughly) of the German population is Turkish or of Turkish descent, yet theres no roadblocks and watchtowers down the Autobahns. Certainly theres problems that face minorities, with blame on both sides, but the place isn't overun with Jihadi mad sharia law wanting nuts. Again - I am not convinced of any danger of muslims per se. There is a problem with offshoots of the Wahabi doctrine, but again, its far from presenting an end to rashers and beer.

As regards the why - if they aren't killing specifically for religion, the problem isn't Islam. If only some of them are killing for religion, then its rather a stretch to blame all for whats clearly not the mainstream view. And, as stated before, theres the whole problem of examining a group in isolation. Theres a number of conflicts ongoing in India featuring everything from Maoists to a movement for independence for Manipur, no religion involved, yet ne'er a peep. Hindu nationalists attacking christians - not a peep. Its the classic method of demonisation. If somebody put up a website of financial scandals of the last 50 years that featured those that involved Jews and Jews alone, I don't think anyone would have a doubt as to the motive behind it.

Post Fri Jul 20, 2012 4:31 am
Jim User avatar
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Oh the French have had their share of attempts, they just react ruthlessly, keep them walled up in ghettos and have a clear understanding with them that if they step a toe over the line they will be met with an overwhelming response. The last attempts at riots there are a great example of the French mindset and they put the national xenophobia to good use.

The Turks in Germany I actually have some experience with, I've wandered their areas looking for, ummm, let's say, ummmm, yeah and everything I've read about the French paled in comparison to the Germans if what I saw was any indicator. The Polizei will stomp your ass for transgressions both real and imagined and have (had maybe, not sure about now) quite liberal shoot to kill regulations that are infamous and I've seen more than one swarthy chap get his brains beat out because the Polizei was concerned about whether his nose was clean or not. Turks tend to twitch when they see them.

When I arrived in country there were orientation classes that were a requirement for all noobs and the first and the last thing they made absolutely certain you were crystal clear on was: Do NOT screw around with the Polizei, if you see them in an area, leave. If they stop you, be very polite and don't even let them think you are a threat or plan escape and failure to be submissive and cooperative would at best result in getting the living crap kicked out of you and that you ran the risk of being shot without hesitation.

The Germans do not fuck around, at all, so the fact that the swarthy folks are really really quiet comes as no shock to me at all.

Post Mon Sep 17, 2012 10:47 am
DCRocks User avatar
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IMO, this sums up the fundamentalist aspects of Islam quite well...

imagejpeg_2_8.jpg
imagejpeg_2_8.jpg (80.21 KiB) Viewed 4997 times
“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”

You have Enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something in your life.

Post Mon Sep 17, 2012 11:43 pm
Nodin User avatar
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DCRocks wrote:
IMO, this sums up the fundamentalist aspects of Islam quite well...



...which presumes that (a) suicide bombing is uniquely islamic (b) associating children with militias is uniquely islamic. Neither is true.

Post Tue Sep 18, 2012 8:07 am
DCRocks User avatar
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Nodin wrote:
DCRocks wrote:
IMO, this sums up the fundamentalist aspects of Islam quite well...



...which presumes that (a) suicide bombing is uniquely islamic (b) associating children with militias is uniquely islamic. Neither is true.


Perhaps A & B separately, as you state it, may be correct, as I can think of situations where A & B were each done, but A & B together, AFAIK, is uniquely Islamic.

Do you have any recent examples of a child suicide bomber from another religion or militia?
“If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all.”

You have Enemies? Good. It means you've stood up for something in your life.


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