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Post Wed Jul 18, 2012 6:57 am
Jim User avatar
Duke
Duke

Posts: 234
Location: Land of Cotton, USA
Slogan: "They may kill you but they won't eat you"
I've always been a little torn on the free access to weaponry our populace has. I like the comfort and peace of mind of having my trusty Colt Commander (and his mates) within easy reach but then some retard like This Guy who for as yet reasons unknown thought it would be just a champion idea to shoot up a bar a scant 60 miles up the road from me and the realization that within a few hundred yards of me lurks other idiots about as bright with similar tools at their disposal makes a brother say "Hmmmmm" too.

We have roughly 35K gun related deaths per year, another 75k injuries; roughly 55% of the fatalities are suicides, 40% are homicides 75% committed by persons with previous criminal records and roughly 33% of the injuries are self-inflicted acts of stupidity. Each year a couple of million crimes are prevented and in the incidents where a weapon is used it is a statistical rarity that the potential victim ever fires a shot.

But then there's the idiots like This Clown playing hero with his one weeks worth of weapons training or This Genius who had an argument at his local Taco Bell with a mentally disabled chap and was so threatened by the man holding a leash he felt it was prudent to shoot him dead which make a brother say "Hmmmmm" again.

At the very least I think we should at least attempt to make it harder for criminals to access them, little weapons training and/or qualification couldn't hurt either and neither of these relatively benign failsafes are unique to our way of life in other areas but for some reason crossing either of these lines makes a certain segment of the population's hair stand up and erect all sorts of way-cool strawmen and set them ablaze to scare off even the suggestion that we should do anything save tolerate the status quo.

There has to be a better way that balances the concerns of the freaks on the left with the concerns of the freaks on the right but as of this writing I'm not entirely sure what that is. All I know is if we saved just one life a year the effort would be well worth it.

Post Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:25 am
Spot of Borg User avatar
The Borg
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Posts: 1428
Location: Delta Quadrant
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Ewwww. Yucky @ adkins. Luckily the rednecks here dont have guns. @ least not in the open.

What is your point Jim? Do you want to do away with the stand-your-ground laws? I think thats the point of all the media coverage anyway. Hopefully they will be changed. you prolly need more stringent laws on who can have a gun too @ least to carry around concealed.

I have said this about suicide a lot though. the gun is the easiest way to do it. In australia where most ppl dont have a gun the most popular way is hanging now.

Just an aside - your first link says 1 person was killed in the alabama shooting but all our papers say 17 were shot. Interesting how the focus is different Your media focuses on the 1 death and ours on the 17 injured.

17 injured in alabama shooting

Spot
Image . . "Cry MEOW! And eat the butterflies of war!"

Post Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:52 am
Jim User avatar
Duke
Duke

Posts: 234
Location: Land of Cotton, USA
Slogan: "They may kill you but they won't eat you"
Spot: "What is your point Jim?

That there are too many fools with guns

Spot: Do you want to do away with the stand-your-ground laws?"

Nope. If the situation presents itself I don't want to have to go poor and potentially be incarcerated for defending myself in circumstances that if I relied on the Police for protection they would get there in time to clean up my corpse. I've carried a pistol for close to 35 years, been thru some fairly dodgy events, never once had to pull it out other than to clean it or play around at the range and hope I never have to. But I want the option should circumstances warrant. It's a crazy world and I want every advantage I can get.

"Stand Your Ground" laws are bit of leftist demagoguery that doesn't really exist in many ways, each set of regulations are unique and some are clearly better than others. In a lot of cases they are redundant to existing law and are generally superfluous inspired by the warblings of the lunatic fringe seeking to make really really really sure that the damn dirty lefties wouldn't resurrect Hitler and come confiscate all their weapons which the 2nd amendment PROMISES that every man jack of us can have no matter how stupid or how loose our screws are.

Post Wed Jul 18, 2012 7:55 am
Jim User avatar
Duke
Duke

Posts: 234
Location: Land of Cotton, USA
Slogan: "They may kill you but they won't eat you"
Spot: "but all our papers say 17 were shot."

They recovered 11 bullet casing on the scene, if 17 people got shot then there were several magic bullets. 17 people went to the hospital with injuries, unknown at this time how many were the result of weapon's fire.

Post Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:01 am
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The Borg
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Posts: 1428
Location: Delta Quadrant
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Not sure what all that stuff about "leftists" meant because its a dog whistle. I will let an american deal with it.

I do think the stand-your-ground laws are going to get changed though. It seems to be the reason all this stuff is publicised. There are murders every day and those 2 got attention.

Then theres this - (swiped from PoliticalPuppet)

Spot
Image . . "Cry MEOW! And eat the butterflies of war!"

Post Wed Jul 18, 2012 8:20 am
Jim User avatar
Duke
Duke

Posts: 234
Location: Land of Cotton, USA
Slogan: "They may kill you but they won't eat you"
Spot: "Not sure what all that stuff about "leftists" meant because its a dog whistle."

OK, find me a rightie squealing "Stand your Ground Stand Your Ground Stand Your Ground" and I'll concede the point. Until then trust that I have a fair handle on events in my country and note my post made fun of both factions for their contributions to the general stupidity.

Political factions absolutely have agendas and they absolutely seed the media with rhetoric to support their agendas and here the outcry over silly and largely imaginary crap like "Stand Your Ground" is entirely a device of the Left atm.

Post Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:01 am
Nodin User avatar
The Borg
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Posts: 271
The truth is, theres no legislating for assholes. Regardless of what checks you put on it, some gobshite will do something stupid. Like cars, but a bit more bystander unfriendly.

Isn't there a waiting period now and checks done? Or is that a state to state thing?

Post Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:57 am
Jim User avatar
Duke
Duke

Posts: 234
Location: Land of Cotton, USA
Slogan: "They may kill you but they won't eat you"
Nodin wrote:
The truth is, theres no legislating for assholes. Regardless of what checks you put on it, some gobshite will do something stupid. Like cars, but a bit more bystander unfriendly.

Isn't there a waiting period now and checks done? Or is that a state to state thing?


Yeah you'll never cut it out entirely, personally I'd settle for taking a big bite out of the homicides committed by people who shouldn't have the weapons in the first place ie: convicted felons.

There are nominal restrictions at the federal level but there's alot of smile and wink that goes on particularly in the secondary market and some states just don't care so location location location is important.

Matter of fact, this piece on the Fast and Furious "scandal" illustrates some of the problems faced and exposes some 5 star GOP bullshit in the process so it's double the pleasure.

Post Wed Jul 18, 2012 5:34 pm
Brendiggg User avatar
The Borg
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Posts: 703
Location: India
Slogan: An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind (unless you are a fly)

It's refreshing to see an American acknowledge that widespread gun ownership results in widespread gun crime. It's almost axiomatic in its simplicity. Yet, there seems to be so much of denial about this. It borders on religious conviction that an armed citizenry is a safe citizenry. I have far more respect for the argument, "we love our guns because fuck you."

Post Thu Jul 19, 2012 12:16 am
Jim User avatar
Duke
Duke

Posts: 234
Location: Land of Cotton, USA
Slogan: "They may kill you but they won't eat you"
Brendiggg wrote:
It's refreshing to see an American acknowledge that widespread gun ownership results in widespread gun crime. It's almost axiomatic in its simplicity.


Man I seriously respect once said "There is not a truth existing which I fear... or would wish unknown to the whole world." which is advice I try to live my life by. The inconvenience of certain truths is why forums like this exist in the first place.

Yet, there seems to be so much of denial about this. It borders on religious conviction that an armed citizenry is a safe citizenry.


Here's the rub, there are so many crackheads, crooks and general neerdowells wandering around armed to the teeth not to mention gaggles of folks who hunt in packs that one could easily have a lightning encounter that would be over before the 9-11 call could be placed much less help arrive on the scene just about anywhere. A lot of folks both sane and insane, myself included, feel that protection is a must and it's tough to argue with them about it and imo rightly so. And while I agree to a certain extent that there is a corollary between availability and acts I also feel that it's simplistic to point at this as the, pardon the pun, silver bullet to make it all go away. There are profound sociological issues in the field in the US and I'm of the mind that to a large degree this more a symptom of these issues than it is the fact that one can own a weapon if one chooses. If you picked them (weapons) all up today the stupid, the amoral and the desperate would simply pick up the first good looking stick or sharpen themselves up a blade and keep on keepin on and the madness would continue with a new set of rules.

Man has a dismal track record attempting to eliminate sins by regulation, sins are eliminated by character and ethics as fundamentals and until this happens you'll have a bunch of folks scared to death seeking comfort where ever they can find it and there ain't no comfort quite like my 8 230 grain buddies. Believe me, I'd rather not have it, I'm a peaceful guy who cries when Bambi's mother dies and just loves kittens, puppies and children. But until I can feel safe by other means, this will have to do.

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